The following is a guest post written by Arjun Pradeep – You can follow him here on Twitter.
Juventus have always had a fascination for French players. With 20 players, France is the third most represented country after Italy and Argentina among players to wear the Black & White colours. From Michel Platini to Zinedine Zidane, Lilian Thuram to Patrice Evra, it’s safe to say that the Torinese club have profited a lot from French Football.
In total, 20 Frenchmen have combined to win 63 trophies, playing 1741 games and scoring 374 goals. With a combined total of 4 Ballon d’Ors won between them, Platini and Zidane are widely recognized as the some of the greatest players to play for La Madama. David Trezeguet is the club’s all-time leading non-Italian goal scorer with 171 goals. And then there’s ba ba, who’s being pursued by most of the top clubs across Europe.
History
Juve are a club of immense tradition. It has been run exclusively by the Agnelli family since 24 July, 1923. In today’s world where money governs the beautiful sport, the most coveted Italian team have managed to stay strong for 92 years and counting, under the singular leadership of the Agnelli family. Another unique example of their tradition is seen through their policy of transfers. Throughout the club’s 118 year old history, the Piedmont team have never sold a player they regard as important, for economic reasons, unless the player himself requested for a move.
It is a resounding policy considering the fact that they have had many exquisite players that many top clubs have always wanted to sign. This was particularly seen when Zlatan Ibrahimovic wanted to leave the sinking Torinese ship during Calciopoli. He had to pull off so many antics to leave the club who were, at the time, playing in the second division. This was the will of the club during its darkest sporting and economic phase. The will to retain their strongest players despite enduring the loss of many sponsors, the revoking of 2 Scudetti and the demotion to Serie B. And onto Pogba…
Why would the 34 time Italian champions suddenly change their traditional century policy and accept a transfer for their most priced asset without his intention to move, especially when they’re in a supreme position of strength, not only in terms of sporting results but also with regards to finances?
What does Pogba mean to Juve ?
Winning 4 successive Scudetti, 2 Coppa and 2 Supercoppa by being a protagonist for seven of those trophies is probably enough to justify that Pogba is extremely important to Juve. Helping Juve remain unbeaten for 156 of the 178 games he featured for the Bianconeri indicates his crucial presence. Scoring 34 goals and making 42 assists in his 14, 068 minutes for the Torinese club proves his decisiveness.
Directly contributing to nearly 28% of Juve’s total goals for the 2015-2016 season despite being a midfielder demonstrates his significance to the club in sporting terms. It isn’t a co-incidence that Juve resurrected their season once Pogba hit top gear and exuded qualities of a leader to steer his team to mark Quenquennio 2.o
On non-sporting terms, Pogba is Juve’s highest paid player earning 4.5 million wages [net] and their most prized asset. This illustrates that he is their most valuable player and their most important player on all levels. He is fundamental to their success on an economic and commercial level. He is the holder of Juve’s most dear shirt, the number 10, which is mostly given to champions that have created footballing history. La Madama gave Pogba the number 10 because his sporting performances merited it and he helps to raise the brand value of the club by wearing the number.
According to a report by Tuttosport, Juve’s commercial value and marketability is primarily dependent on Pogba for not only this season, but for the next 5-10 years. From his dabbing to his dancing, he draws sponsors, sells merchandise and elevates the commercial value of the club. It is safe to say that he is Juve’s most focal point of their sporting and economic project. An important one that also attracts top players from around the world to play for the club.
All these factors further justify the reasons behind Juve holding him very closely and reportedly having the minimum value of his price tag of over €120 million.
Juve’s Economic Strength
Juve are growing economically ever since President Andrea Agnelli became the president in 2010. His management has been able to overturn a deficit of over €90 million to a profit of €2.3 million for the 2014-2015 season. This was before injection of a new deal with Adidas and JEEP came into picture.
In accordance with Juve’s official financial report for the first nine months of 2015-2016 fiscal year, the revenues were announced to be €304.5 million with total costs of €277.6 million subsequently generating a positive operating income of €48.1 million before taxes and €36.1 million after taxes. La Madama are projected to generate €360-380 million for the entirety of 2015-2016 fiscal year and make a net profit of €5-10 million.
Juve’s transfer budget
Until this point, Juve are to pay a minimum of €49.70 million or a maximum of €75.3 million depending on whether the mode of payment for Pjanic was spread over multiple years or a one shot payment. At the same time, until this stage of the mercato, La Madama are to receive a minimum of €44.7 million or a maximum of €68.03 million, depending on whether Alvaro Morata’s buy back clause will be paid in different installments or at a single time.
Automatically, Juve’s net spend at this point of time, varies from a minimum €5 million to a maximum of €30.6 million . This figure is well within Juve’s budgetary constraints for FFP and otherwise, even without including the potential sales of fringe players such as the likes of Mario Lemina, who are reportedly on their way out of Turin. Therefore, the club can easily make room to afford another defender, a midfelder and a striker without even considering the sale of Pogba.
Juve’s wage budget
Juve’s net wage budget for 2015-2016 season was €63.8 million while Juve’s net wage budget is currently at €65.5 million. The Bianconeri acquired Pjanic and Dani Alves at a combined reported net wages of 7 million euros while saved wages of €9.2 million with the departures of Morata, Simone Padoin, Martin Caceres, Rubinho and Juan Cuadrado, whose future is reportedly not in Turin.
There is a net difference of only €1.7 million added on to the net wage budget until this stage of the mercato, in comparison to the 2015-2016 season. Considering that some of the reserve players such as the likes of Anderson Hernanes will be departing the club, Juve can reportedly free net wages further up to €15.2 million when they have added only €7 million till now.
Pogba has a current deal till 2019, which sees him earn nearly €14 million excluding bonuses and taxes. According to various reports in Italy, he will be offered an extension by Juve till 2021 which would see him earn €7 million net. Juve’s current net wage budget would subsequently rise to €68 million making it only €4.2 million more than the net wage budget for 2015-2016.
Hence, it is within Juve’s limits to increase their wage cap and offer Pogba the quoted price. The returns are subsequently higher with regards to merchandizing and on a commercial level. Pogba too would be inclined to accept it as he gets a wage hike by €2.5 million net and he can continue to develop further, win and remain a protagonist as a Bianconero.
Juve’s perspective
Now that we know about Juve’s economic strength and Pogba’s dependence to them on sporting and economic terms, we know that it isn’t easy for another club to enforce a transfer. Juve are economically strong enough to reject offers for Pogba while he’s adding a lot of value on a sporting and marketing level, which makes Juve want to keep him.
The club’s perspective is and has always been: “Pogba is non-transferable. There is no intention to place him on the market and be involved in negotiations with other clubs over a transfer.” Juve’s CEO Giuseppe Marotta also revealed that the club rejected bids of over €80 million for Pogba from Manchester City and Barcelona last season.
As mentioned earlier, Juve also have a history of keeping their most valuable players without any intention to sell regardless of the number of lucrative proposals that are always up for grabs. It is what makes Juve a “big club”. That being said, it ultimately depends on the player and his will to stay. Like anyone else of a similar caliber before him, if Pogba wants to stay, Juve won’t even entertain discussing financial parameters on the table.
If he wants to leave, Juve won’t force him to stay and they will participate in negotiations with other clubs for him. If he wants to leave, they will certainly set a world record fee that can only be afforded by very few clubs in the world. If Pogba’s intention is to leave, Juve will subsequently monetize on an unimaginable gigantic deal.
Pogba’s perspective
Money is always an important factor for any player and that doesn’t exclude Pogba. Juve don’t have the financial resources yet to match the huge wages that may be offered from the top clubs from England, Spain, France and Germany. But the Piedmont club definitely made a huge statement two years back by making him their highest paid player and portraying his worth to them compared to the rest of the team.
There have been many comparisons with Zidane’s move to Real Madrid in 2001. The situation was different when compared to what Pogba is currently experiencing. Zizou was 29, his wife wasn’t happy in Turin and Juve had only won the Intertoto Cup in his last 3 seasons. His wife had previously stated her intention of leaving Turin on many occasions prior to 2001. Juve were still happy to retain Zidane but the 1998 World Cup winner requested to be sold once he was 30. Perhaps Juve automatically felt he wasn’t that stimulated enough to give his all to the club and saw it as the best opportunity to monetize a lot for him that would enable them to launch a new cycle. He was subsequently sold a year earlier than when he wanted to leave.
Pogba is 6 years younger, he’s a part of the club’s best cycle since the 90’s and he is winning. He is at a club where he is constantly developing at a tremendous rate taking his game to new boundaries. As a man, he has matured and has proven that his shoulders can bear the pressure of lifting the team as a star. He is at a team where he is winning, earning a lot, being valued by the club and its fans. He maintains a close relationship with his coaching staff, his teammates, the president, the directors and the vice president.
Pogba’s agent, Mino Raiola also previously represented the vice President of the club, Pavel Nedved. Raiola maintains a great relationship with the leadership of the club. In short, Pogba and his agent are currently happy at Turin and this was also confirmed by his representative in a recent interview to Marca.
The club is also adding players of a high caliber and surrounding Pogba with players that are worthy of accomplishing their 20-year elusive dream of winning the Champions League.
Can they lure Pogba?
Multiple media outlets in Italy, from Mediaset to SKY Italia, reported that Pogba’s agent wanted wages of €11-13 million [net], to convince his client to move to Real Madrid. An ambitious high demand on an economic level from his agent to convince the 23-year-old to move to the reigning Champions League winners and perhaps the biggest club in the world. He will probably seek a 5-year deal which would mean that the Spanish giants despite all their stature & success must offer him nearly €150 million [gross] including taxes and bonuses.
That isn’t an easy demand to match, even for a club as big as Real Madrid. That would mean the Spanish giants raising their wage budget for 23-year-old central midfielder that has never won or even played for them, offering excruciating wages that are much higher than those that created history and offered more to the club. This would result in the existing players at the Galacticos to demand higher wages for themselves and may result in causing friction and disharmony among the members of the squad. Hence, a club like Real Madrid would need to think a lot before agreeing to offer Pogba what he seeks, without disrupting the environment and the finances of their own club.
When Pogba’s agent reportedly seeks such high wages from a club of Real Madrid’s stature, it is obvious that he would seek more from clubs that aren’t as big or successful as Los Merenguens currently. Would Pogba agree to move to such clubs, though? He’s at a place where they’re bidding to win the Champions League currently. Would he accept moving to clubs like Manchester United or Chelsea that aren’t even in Europe’s most prestigious competition, and are starting a new cycle under new coaches in an entirely new project with a goal of winning in Europe in 5 years, by when Pogba will be 28?
It would perhaps be wise to wait for the likes of Real or Barcelona when they’re more convinced in him and want him at all costs. Pogba’s agent also stressed in the same interview to Marca, that the sporting project of an interested suitor is of more importance to him than their economic offers for his client.
The probability of Pogba’s agent using other clubs to get a better proposal from Juve to keep him in Turin cannot be ruled out.
Conclusion
Considering all the aforementioned factors, the chance of Pogba leaving Juve is very low. Juve are financially strong and in a position to reject the pursuit of others clubs for him. The club is in a position to offer him a reasonable new contract and keep him at their disposal for a longer time, thereby increasing his price tag by a lot more to shield him from potential suitors in the future.
Pogba is in a position where he gets to win, wear the number 10, be the highest paid player, be their most valuable asset, continue to develop at a tremendous rate and be happy in Turin. However, it ultimately depends on his will. If a club meets his economic and sporting demands, he would definitely be inclined to move. But the probability of that occurring in this summer is very minimal.
Pogba’s agent, Raiola would seek the best for his client and work as per his client’s wishes. If Juve want to keep Pogba in addition to satisfying his economic and sporting demands, Raiola would be happy to keep his client at Juve. If Pogba wants to stay in Turin, Raiola would seek out his best interests and look to keep him in Turin as a Bianconero for this summer.
When the three major parties involved: the club, the player and the entourage, are in synchronization honoring each others sporting, economic and moral demands, the likelihood of Pogba moving from Juve to another club is virtually impossible.
Wow very thorough and very well put. Thank you! see this is the reason why I’ve fallen in love with this site, give all the facts and comment from there. Pogba is as big as Pirlo and Buffon to me (fucking Legendary Idol Gods) and seeing him leave Juventus would break my heart! If he chooses Real Madrid well at least he went to an arguably better team (at the moment man v man) but if he went to Manchester United or Barcelona dear fucking god i would cry!!! and i would be forced to renounce my hatred for those teams and suck it up, just because Pogba plays for them. So much transfer talk everywhere every single website that talks about soccer from the most well known to the least. Say United and Madrid will likely get Pogba this summer, and ive seen these reports so much and finding out Pogba unfollowed Juventus on twitter, that i have come to believe them, But after seeing this, i see that those reports aren’t grounded on many facts or common sense train of thought
Thank you for now i am much less unsettled
Brilliant article. Such a well rounded discussion, and it covers all the bases regarding this situation. For me it’s always been a very simple issue, and one that I share with all the other Juventini who know what’s best for this club;
NON SI VENDE POGBA!
Credit should be given to Allegri on developing pogba from a box to box mid to a creative beast.As I said earlier players like pogba stress on project and juve has the brilliant project with great youngsters in world (rumours of pjaca also) with the focal point being him wearing No.10 shirt for Juventus.At real he will not be a focal point.I think we will hold him for another 2 years.If atletico Madrid can hold on griezman (atleast till 26 years) then juve can hold on pogba (atleast till 25).
Great writing, well done. I have mixed feelings about this. The wages from Juve of 4.5m euros net are already great to mere mortals, and an increased deal even more so. But strong reports of Man UTD offering 250k GBP (near 300k euros) gross + 5% of the 120 million transfer fee should not be ignored. He lives like a prince now, that deal would enable him to live like a king. Unfortunately only in Manchester, which is a dump.
United have got no chance this season.
An attack of Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Martial, Rashford and mkhitaryan? A defence Mourinho is adding to and more than capable of vastly improving. If they can keep de gea…They seem as strong a squad as any other, if not the strongest, with a manager as good as any other, if not better. Perhaps they could do with some improvement on the flanks, yet Darmian has much more to offer, as do Shaw, Mensah, Lingard and Scneiderlin. Indeed, I feel they have more than a chance…
^ What TGP said. I think UTD will be more than of interest to all the top players now Van Gaal has gone. Ironic given that both UK and Italian banks / economies are close to imploding, perhaps there won’t be the money at either club to pay his wages 🙂
A great article. In-depth and well composed. I must beg to differ on the resurgence of the club late last year in some way due to Pogba stepping up a gear for it was the return of Marchisio which steadied the ship, it was his quiet stewardship of the team on field which allowed the pressure to be lifted from others, such as Pogba who was not dealing with the responsibility to lead very well at all.
I have long thought and often commented that Paul will stay at Juve whilst his own ambitions match those of the club. He wants to win the champions league, he wants the ballon d’or, he wants to make his mark in history as one of the greatest payers of all time. He has however a rare sense of loyalty in the modern game. He already knows he will be rich beyond the dreams of many on the planet and is still ever so young. Such is his talent that he is not going to have one opportunity to join a better side, but a constant opportunity. It has been my opinion and remains so that he will give his Juve career at least one more season. Maybe two or even more. For I feel he loves the club; its where he has made his name, where he has been given the chance to launch himself at the top level. As long as we continue to seek to improve and challenge at the top level, he has no need to move elsewhere.
However, despite my longstanding conviction that such is his desire to always compete at the elite level, the Man U option has shaken that conviction, ever more so after watching Mourinho’s press conference during which I could not help but assume Pogba was the 4th player talked of.
Jose has not lost his glow. Nor has he become a poor manager, a losing manager. His record remains startling and more impressive than any other anywhere near his age. The signings they have made coupled with the fact that the squad was strong enough to fare moderately well even with Van Gaal haphazardly tinkering, offering their most inconsistent season of form I have ever witnessed. Yet would Paul forsake a tilt at the champions league with Juve to join the Mourinho project? (talk of winning europe within five years is extremely pessimistic – with the squad, signings and immense spending power I believe Jose will have them back to the top domestically next season, and seriously challenging for the champions league the year after).
I feel and hope that Pogba’s demand to compete at the top level leaves only Real Madrid as a possible suitor this summer. Yet he will be able to join Real every Summer for the next 8 years I suspect!
Despite the obvious value he brings to the team, he did not have as good a season as the previous campaigns. He is nowhere near the finished product, especially when it comes to leadership. He is also not as pliable into other positions even in midfield as we could expect, given his demigod talents. As we saw when he played in the RCM for Juve and more recently for France, he is nowhere near as potent.
It comes down to his will, not that of Raiola. I will be happy if he stays, and assume he will, yet if he leaves, in line with our history I will be excited to see how we spend the transfer fee on new stars, for we will spend that money, as the report above explains we are not lacking a piece of gold and have no burning need to balance the books.
Maybe he has long dreamt of paying with Ibrahimovic and Rooney? Yet he has Khedira, Dybala, Sando, Pjanic and the worlds greatest defence, living legends, to dream of now. After training with them, living with them, feeling part of their family.
The club are handling the situation well enough by my reckoning. As is the player. I cannot imagine that he will move for money, only for ambition. With Alves and Pjanic already signed, more to come, and his development in the perfect climate to blossom still further, now is not the time to embark on a new adventure. There remains work to do in black and white.
Agreed. Mourinhio wants him and he wanted pogba also when he was at Chelsea.Press and news outlets also created baseless story that pogba unfollowed Juve (while he never followed juve on twitter).In response to that BS story He started following Juve on Twitter.I think juve will be able to hold him for another year atleast.
You can’t compare Chelsea with Man U. Chelsea have never had the spending power of UTD, or the wages budget without someone having to leave to make room in the budget. ManU don’t have those restrictions. Hazard is the only Chelsea player on wages in same region as Man U pay at least 4 players (including new signing Ibrah..). Mourinho may have wanted Pogba at Chelsea, his ability to make that happen was very small. Remember Chelsea have a very expensive new stadium to pay for in the next few years. That hurts spending power.
Not so at Old Trafford. They have plenty of money to spend even before the new television deal kicks in.
Hes so overrated. Hes so much under pressure.
He really should stay at Vinovo for 2 or 3 years.
Come on guys. There are many other perfect players.
But you all know what will happen after euro??
Pogboom just stays.
All this bs news with real and manu is so annoying.
Great article!! As they say “the devil is in the details”. Pogba has no reason to leave Juventus anytime soon, perhaps in the not soo distant future. He has matured and gotten better every single season that he has been with us. The biggest selling point in my opinion will be one perhaps the author forgot to mention. That is, serie is actually getting better and more competitive. Now this may not seem like it given our dominance, but both of the Milanese clubs are going to realize a ton of fresh capital. Napoli is pushing hard to find missing pieces in their squad as well. I cannot wait untill Milan and Inter get better and we see real Italian derbies. If the league gets better, Pogba might become a Juve lifer. Lets see what these chinese investors plan to do.
thats true the other day i read that milan got an injection of 200 million euros
https://youtu.be/ir6ACwTTYRQ
OT
lol couldnt help myself
It’s funny in all languages! Poor old Zaza.
lol i dont care bout language, the vid is fun
Pogba is staying, he has never once shown any interest in leaving, Raiola trying to secure a better deal for his client in Turin. Its a love-hate relationship with Raiola for me.
My mate living in Madrid is saying Juve are trying to buy Morata back, any info you got on this?
Very good article. Pogba sells papers which is why he’s linked to United. But with Mourinho there you really never know.
Pogba didn’t just leave United for playing time, he also left for money. He would double/triple his wages at United from the highest Juventus can offer. That doesn’t take into account sponsorship deals. Yes, there were other things being taken into account as to why he left, but if United were willing to change their policy at the time on how much players of his age are paid, he’d probably never have left. Juventus were willing to pay him twice the amount United were at that time. For an 18 year old, it was a no brainer.
Don’t get me wrong, Juventus is a huge club….so is Real Madrid, but the reason United are the only team that can afford the fee Juve would demand and the wages Pogba/Raiola would demand are because United have the most lucrative sponsorship deals. They’ve spent less than £60 million on transfer this summer so they are poised to land a “big fish”. Barcelona would have to move a couple players or one of Suarez, Messi, Neymar to afford, Chelsea would have to seriously change their wage structure and sell players. City and Real Madrid would also have to sell players. I’m sure Bayern Munich could come in, but they also avoid large transfer fees (like an Arsenal). PSG is probably the only other team, but by playing in France, at some point FFP will become a serious concern for that club as well. The TV money just isn’t there like the BPL.
FFP is not an issue for them at the moment (United), it is for Real Madrid. Real Madrid could “do a Barcelona” and sign Pogba (like Barca did with Suarez) knowing a transfer ban is coming, but that money would be better spent on multiple players knowing that CR7 is aging and they could be looking at needs in other areas next summer when a potential ban would finally be in place.
I have no idea what will happen. I’m a United fan and would love to have Pogba back. We were told about how promising he was when he was brought into the academy at 16 from Le Havre. Anxiously awaiting his debut, being impressed with what little we did see and just frustrated when we let him slip away. Ferguson’s biggest mistake was to not give in to his demands. There are players who deserve to make those demands and Pogba is one of them.
Like the article mentioned it will come down to Pogba. Seeing Jose’s press conference yesterday, it does seem like Pogba is that “4th signing”, they’ve clearly mended fences with Raiola after signing 2 of his other clients. Something special is happening here and there’s no reason to dismiss that Pogba would be willing to be a part of it. The article assumes it would take United 5 years to be contending, but with a man like Jose around, a club that finishes 5th and won a domestic cup does not have as much work to be done as it’s perceived. United’s biggest challenge is how to phase out Rooney, as he holds them back in the current state.
I’ve always been fond of Juventus, especially Buffon. Losing Pogba is not ideal, but he cost the club £1 million. They will make a 10000% profit on that if the £100 million fee rings true. You can do a lot worse than that as a fan of Juventus. I just hope for the sake of the club they do a good job of spending that money.
We’ll know soon enough if Pogba is leaving. I don’t think we’ll be waiting long to find out. I’d imagine within a week of France winning or getting knocked out of the Euros will the situation become clear as day. Mourinho made it clear that his 4 signings would be completed early enough to see what else he can do out of need or want. This won’t be an ongoing saga all summer. Either Pogba leaves or makes it clear he wants to stay. He has more important things to worry about right now.
Welcome input from a fan from the other side of the abyss, jc. Most of the above makes sense, yet there was also the issue of playing time and likely succession. Pogba appears to have been told he would be treated like the other youth players in all respects, not just wages which were doubled, but also in playing time, moving into the first team. I believe even Scholes had returned at this stage…Which hardly bodes well for a youngster keen and feeling capable and desperate to play, impress, develop in competitive combat.
It was more than merely money.
As now it is more than the money which will decide the outcome of the saga which appears – presently – 100% manufactured by everyone other than the player himself. Mourinho is a draw card, yet I cannot believe that he is such a draw, building this new super team (which does look ever more powerful), that Paul will forsake a year of champions league football. His ambition is far greater than his zeal for lucre and this coming campaign…which is why I see Real as the only legitimate suitors this Summer. he can always join Man U when they are back in the champions league…
Thanks for the respectful response. I just can’t see Real Madrid breaking the transfer record this summer for Pogba and at the same time, I don’t see Juventus accepting anything less than a record sum. Maybe Pogba bosses these next two games and Perez changes his mind about the player.
Sky Sports reporting that Woodward and Juventus are currently in negotiations. Can’t imagine that would have started without the go-ahead from Raiola – much like Mkhitaryan who agreed personal terms before the teams started to hammer out the deal.
And to actually enter negotiations indicates that Juventus is listening.
Let’s hope for the sake of the supporters on both sides that once the player is finished with the Euros he enlightens us one way or the other.
It will be disappointing and disheartening to find Paul moving for anything other than greater glory, which would be a way to describe a move to Man U. He will still be coveted next Summer, the United team by then will have grown and meshed and assuredly returned to the champions league and he can become the jewel in their crown. By moving now it certainly suggests the money matters to him more than I assumed and hoped for as Man U are well below Juve presently, in fact they have been for a few years now in terms of challenging both domestically and in Europe.
Also the suggestion that he would accept far lower wages (than Raiola is apparently demanding of Man U) to head to Madrid is awful for any supporter, yet more than assuaged by his potential inclusion, though I prefer players to move for ambition, not just money, and Paul will be putting his own ambitions on hold essentially for another year of his career.
And of course Raiola is the catalyst.
I appreciate the chance to lock horns in a dignified manner with anyone with in depth knowledge of my motherland, my friend…partly for tribal reasons and a sense of solidarity which rises from within, yet also because I have watched the premier league more than any other since its inception in the early 90s. How could I not hold United dead in my heart! Not just their battles with Juve…Eric Cantona is probably my favourite player of all time. Also hugely enjoyed the old warhorses Bruce and Pallister, in a way Man U were the Ac Milan of England, whose 90s side was stronger and more majestic yet still had some interesting similarities. That was a wonderful era for football and for life itself, the 90s in England and Europe was the closest we have had to the 60s in terms of social upheavel, creativity gone berserk, liberty, change, explosions of different realms of music, art, opportunity…Indeed I feel privileged to have been present and spent two years in Manchester from 97-99 where I had a great and gritty time!
Of course Raiola was the catalyst. He was also the catalyst and engineered the move away from United to Juventus in similar fashion. The paper stories that winter were in the similar vein and Ferguson admitted as much himself in retrospect.
I’ve been there as a fan with this player and agent already.
But I won’t deny it wasn’t the right thing to do for the player. If it happens time will tell if the same is true now.
Pogba isn’t going anywhere folks, I would bet allot on that. The English have the absolute worst media in the world, by a long stretch. Every single player in the world has been linked with the top 4 english clubs. You can literally google every single player around the big 5 leagues and they have all been linked with English clubs… it is absolute non-sense and they have no credibility whatsoever. Pogba has been linked with Man U about 1,000 times in the last year based on all the english press. There is no reason for him to leave Juventus yet, he is only 23. Juventus isnt stupid either, he hasn’t even hit his prime so imagine how much money he’ll be worth in 2 years. On top of that, Man u treats players like shit in all honesty. What english fans can’t seem to grasp is that its not all about money. These players make millions as it is, there is some sentimental value to clubs. Man U can’t compete with Juve on a historical scale. Their club is loaded with debt, I am not sure how long they can sustain this much debt.
Side note, people are not giving LVG enough credit for last year. This is an average Man U club player wise. Mourinho is no guardian angel by any stretch of the imagination, look at his time at real madrid and even chelsea last year. Even with the acquistions Man U has made, I highly doubt they’ll finish above City,Arsenal, Chelsea…….. Granted that Tottenham has a much better team that is still growing, it will be a miracle for Man u to finish top 4. They just acquired Bailly from Villareal and apparently he is not ready for premier league LOL……….. so why spend the 30 million?
Maybe I am rambling too much, but I dont believe in English exceptionalism. You kind of lose your credibility with this gossip the press constantly spreads. Pogba isn’t going anywhere folks! Yes you spotted the talent in him, but Juve made him the player he is.
The premier league is by far the most watched and by far the richest league on the planet. The sponsorship deals, of various industries, the wages, the global reach, the transfer fees are all enormous. The aim of the press is not to relay the truth but to focus as often as possible on what draws in readers, and when your market is huge and eager for any news on the brilliantly marketed product and players found within that product its unsurprising to find so much tabloid nuisance. I am no fan of the english media, or any media whatsoever which is controlled by corporate capital and I see little difference between the rather more cunningly controlled media of Russia than I do in the so called free press of the West. They simply adopt different methods to achieve the same end, which is control and direction and exposure and ever expanding reach into every aspect of our lives and hearts.
I have no idea how you have jumped from ‘there is a lot of tabloid nonsense in the most talked about and globally supported football league’ to ‘english exceptionalism’ which is a term I have seen bandied about by yet another wretched mass media with roots both in my motherland of england and beyond into mainland europe. Of late, in order to offer the mindless a way of ‘understanding’ the BREXIT leave vote. For those I know who voted Leave, it had nothing to do with feeling better than anyone else, and everything to do with growing contempt and isolation from the ruling classes both at home and at the top of the EU. It was a roar for change, for an end to the ever worsening poverty gap, the lack of jobs, the lowering of wages, the cuts into the public sector, the austerity measures, the ebbing away of their identity into a super state of Europe. How people can so easily and instantly accept this as english exceptionalism is a master stroke of the mass media machine.
There is no connection between the avalanche of transfer rumours during a european championships when the players are given further exposure and this soundbite tripe of ‘english exceptionalism’.
I could look at Aguero and Sanchez, two players we were most keen on acquiring. Two of the finest in the game. Money certainly hugely influenced their moves to England, yet so did the attraction of playing in the premier league and sampling a different culture, especially in the case of Sanchez. As London is one of the finest cities in the world if you have millions to play with…
With the money LVG spent, his season was appalling. There was no consistency, no improvement, no development, barely any excitement. You would be hard pressed to find a Man United fan who showered him with praise, and rightly so.
I am unsure how much you know of the financial system in general, and my own knowledge on the intricacies is average at best, yet it is clear that the whole system is built on debt, all of it…and so it comes as no surprise to see Man United possessing ever greater spending power, based on debt.
I get your point on press, but with all due respect the English media overdoes it. Sure there are Italian magazines but it isn’t mas producing articles 5-10 times a day like the English do.
LVG did spend allot of money but I don’t think they gave him enough time. People forget how much money Mourinho had at his disposal at real and what did he win? Only the league if my memory serves me right.
I come from a finance background so I am very familiar with that aspect of clubs. Man U is in debt up to their necks ever since the Glazer family took the club over. Die hard man u fans protested and in retaliation created their own club, I believe its called F.C. United of Manchester. I believe the club has excelled every year and it is in the 6th tier of football now.
As far as the landscape itself, I think London is a beautiful city but Torino isn’t that far behind. Given how much effect Brexit will have on the pound in the near future. I wouldn’t expect these Hollywood transfers to happen so frequently.
Most financial experts far more in the know than me, who have no vested interests in the established powers and are more eager to play the market, make money for their clients, who I have studied, seem quite consistent in their appraisal of the pound been intentionally elevated by others of their realm before the vote, to ensure that the drop after the vote appeared horrifying (making their clients money in the process) when the reality is that the pound has remained in the same range, since 2008 when the financial meltdown known to some as the GFC took place…which instantly rouses my focus on the mighty Gills, my second team!
Yes yes, I am well aware of the offshoot Man U side, it was a pleasant, joyful very much community focused endeavour which has since been co-opted by an example of the very same issues the original cause had with the Glaziers….albeit on a much smaller scale. The dream blossomed then was trounced.
ANd yet, I remain intrigued to learn of your jump from the most bothersome tabloid nonsense of the most popular league in the world, proving an example of ‘english exceptionalism’?
This is a mutually exclusive situation with Brexit. Keep in mind, over 180,000 pages of trade deals will have to be re-negotiated now. Tariffs are definitely a possibility now as Europe will be reluctant to offer free trade deals going forward. These macro effects will have a propounding effect on the British economy.
English exceptionalism- I don’t want to overly emphasize as I might offend someone and that is not clearly my goal. People forget, the British Empire ruled much of the world in the 18th and 19th century. After world war 2 their influence has been marginalized to say the least. I think the British want a platform once again, they have no intention of being second fiddle to Germany for much longer. I could write about this for a while but I’ll refrain.
We got a bit off topic so back to Pogba. He has no reason to go to Man U as the only thing they can offer him that Juve cant is more money. Clubs like Barcelona and Real offer champions league glory. I’d understand if he were to leave in a year or two because he wants C.L glory. If he left for one of the Spanish giants I wouldn’t even dislike him for it, but it makes absolutely no sense to go to Man U at this point.
No problem, comrade…Let us forget Brexit. Yet I am still failing to understand your link between the tabloids doing what tabloids do and this idea you have of english exceptionalism?
I am intrigued to learn of where you have lived in my motherland through your life. to gain such ideas. My own experiences, having lived in England for the majority of my life, do not concur in any manner this suggestion of a widespread superiority complex, in any walk of life. There are certainly stronger and more prevalent semblances of patriotism in the working class areas I have known, yet mainly with the older generations. Other than a handful of psychopaths for whom loving your country is as solemn a duty as loving your mother have stood out as dangerous and deranged, yet they would probably not know much of our history.
You suggest the english want a platform like Germany has, on the basis of eagerness to return to Empire? And this apparent english desire you are referring to, is the BREXIT routine I assume?
Again, I am keen to learn of your nurture and times in England, comrade. Opinions vary so much depending on area, on ethnic make up of regions, on employment prospects, provision of public service etct etctt…Far more people living in poverty stricken areas voted to Leave (it appears) than were to be found in one of the two towns I call home; Brighton, where the Remain vote was staggering, yet it is a prosperous, lively, beach side cosmopolitan party town which is one of the finest places to live in the Summer.
So what of you? Which english experience has led to your view of english exceptionalism?
With respect to the other users and the topic itself I think we got a bit off topic. This conversation would be served better during a round of Guinness and some cigarettes haha. I respect your opinion and I think you seemed to have a pretty good grasp off the macro scale. I agree with allot of your points and some I disagree with but lets leave it where its at for now.
Did you guys see both Leali and Ganz have been loaned out? I dont understand why Ganz is getting loaned out to serie b again. This move doesn’t make much sense as we only have 3 strikers now. My guess is that Beppe is getting an attacker for sure.
Side note, Andres Tello was loaned out to a Serie A team. I think this is the best prospect we have. Granted he will get allot of playing time this year, Tello might be a starter by next year. This kid has tremendous talent (born in 1996).
By all means, send word to thegutterpoet@Live.com, Jas…yet I do not see how to answer my questions on the points you raised would be in any way disrespectful…
I believe we have discussed Ganz before. He has pretty much a similar record to Zaza in the same league, zero experience in Serie A, was solid yet unspectacular last term and there is nothing to suggest he is a better player with a brighter future than any of the players we presently have in our squad up top.
Leali was of course always going to be loaned out. I think he has squealed once or twice about happily becoming our number 3, but at what cost to his development? He has joined a club who have champions league football and a domestic double to defend. If he can find himself as their number one, it could be a major campaign in his career.
Tello deal was done earlier this year, just became official of late. He fared well for Cagliari in Serie B and it will be interesting to see how he does at Empoli, yet of greater interest is another player we have sent there…Matheus Periera.
I am waiting a short while to offer an update on the youth sector, as there has been some exciting movement lower down the age groups yet nothing unexpected with the 18-22 crowd.
Man United fan here. Whilst I agree with some of your comments, it’s completely inaccurate that United are “loaded with debt” compared to other clubs. All clubs have debt, Juventus included. United’s is actually a fair bit less than Real Madrid’s and is completely unsurprising if you look at their revenue.
The world runs on debt and so does football.