Youth Team

Juventus Youth Report – September 2016

September 5, 2016 - 12:02 pm

With the international break proving a bother for many, some out of concern for injuries, for others further trauma delaying late in the day tactical adjustments, it seems opportune to bring you an overview of the major happenings in the Juve youth sector.

As many are well aware, we are not Barcelona. We do not have an all conquering youth side comprising of ready made superstars to promote to the senior squad. Yet it is fair to state that other than the UEFA youth league – where we have yet to make our mark – last season for Grosso’s U19 squad was one of glory. Winning the league stage then bowing out in the final of the knock-out stages of the bread and butter primavera league, losing in the final of the coppa of the same realm, and winning the Viareggio. The signs were very promising indeed, yet I have covered this and the fortunes of our loaned players previously so will focus on the near to Now.

What new fledgling talent have we procured? Where have we sent our primavera stars to cut their teeth with the men? Where is the next Messi? Some of these questions I can answer…

We have just picked up 18 year old Mattias Andersson, a Swedish U19 international who has played a few games for Malmo’s senior side before we swooped. Mattias plays in defence and heads straight into Grosso’s primavera outfit soon due to commence their league campaign.

As for the major loan moves of our little ones:

Beyond the peninsula

Guido Vadala (19) SS – Union de Santa Fe (Argentina)

Stefano Beltrame (23) SS – Den Bosch (Holland)

Tasos Donis (20) SS – Nice (France)

Nicolo Pozzebon (19) CF – Gronigen (Holland)

Lorenzo Rossetti (22) CF – Lugano (Switzerland)

Mame Thiam (22) LW/CF – PAOK (Greece)

Luca Marrone (26) CM/DM – Zulte Waregem (Belgium)

Vajebah Sakor (20) CM – Valarenga (Norway)

Carlos Blanco (20) CB – Lausanne (Switzerland)

Vykintas Slivka (21) CM – Den Bosch (Holland)

Nicola Leali (23) GK – Olympiakos (Greece)

Serie A

Domenico Berardi (22) SS – Sassuolo

Ouasim Bouy (23) CM/DM/CB/AM – Palermo

Matheus Pereira (18) AM – Empoli

Stefano Sensi (21) AM – Sassuolo

Leonardo Spinazzola (23) AM – Atalanta

Andres Tello (19) DM – Empoli

Pol Lirola (18) RB – Sassuolo

Serie B

Alberto Cerri (20) CF – SPAL

Leonardo Spinazzola (23) LM – Atalanta

Simone Ganz (22) CF – Verona

Francesco Cassatta (19) RB/RW – Ascoli

Mattia Vitale (18) CM – Cesena

Pol Garcia (21) CB – Latina

Fillipo Romagna (19) CB – Novara

Joel Untersee (22) RB – Brescia

Luka Oliviera (17) LM – Novara

I have omitted a fair few, yet I adjudge them to be presently no greater talents than at best leading to become makeweights in future deals for other players we wish to bring into the fold, which is unfortunately the way for likely many of the above in turn. However, all players listed I believe still have potential to find themselves in our colours at some stage of their senior career.

The most interesting of loan moves involve those stationed in the top flight of our domestic league pyramid. Bouy, Sensi, Tello and Pereira are talented lads, all embracing their maiden campaign in the upper tier and no doubt our scouts (me included) will be monitoring their progress with zeal. I am also intrigued to see how Cassatta, Cerri and Romagna fare in Serie B. The rest are of ever decreasing interest, though will likely earn us a few handfuls of gold in the future. Although…I very much liked the look of Rosseti pre-season. He seemed an accomplished front man, very tidy and direct.

Clemenza would probably have headed out on loan as he has long seemed ripe for picking, yet the ACL injury suffered in March during the Viareggio tournament has forced us to keep him in house. He will train with the primavera and perhaps also with the seniors as he seeks to revive.

Kastanos is a more interesting affair, for he appears to me physically capable of stepping up to the man’s game and very promising. We may have kept him in the ranks to be registered as one of the home grown players. If so – and I will delve deeper in due course – it will be wonderful to see him given some time in the coppa.

Major moves arriving in the youth sector-

Rogerio (18) LB – Sassuolo

Mattias Andersson (18) CB – Malmo

Francesco Margiotta(23) CF – Lausanne

Mehdi Leris (18) LW – Chievo

Tamba M’Pinda (18) DM – Bourgoin (France)

Oumar Toure (17) DM – Santarcangelo

Luka Oliveira (18) DM – Sporting Club D’Espinho

Andi Zeqiri (17) SS – Lausanne

Allessandro Semprini (18) RB – Brescia

Ricardo Campos (16) CF – Benfica

Nicolo Mosti (18) AM – Empoli

The Albanian by blood yet Swiss born frontman Zeqiri could well prove a very smart purchase indeed. Not many players make their debut in the seniors at 15, as did our new recruit. He joins on loan with an option to purchase fresh from making 21 appearances for the Lausanne first team in 15/16, scoring 8 goals in the process. With a host of other clubs reported to be scouting we have now made the move to bring the U19 international to Turin. Towering at 1.81m, the Swiss is clearly a physical menace with a decent left peg who I will be following for the coming campaign. (Carlos Blanco Moreno – scorer of that stunning strike from the halfway line pre-season in Melbourne – has moved in the other direction as part of the same deal.)

Nicola Mosti has arrived from Empoli

Nicola Mosti has arrived from Empoli

Another rising star added to the Juve night sky is 18 year old Nicola Mosti who was the creative catalyst for the Empoli primavera side’s positive run in league and both cups last term. A regular for Italy at U16 and more recently U18 level, Nicola is most comfortable central and charged with directing the offensive endeavour. A solid haul of goals and assists to his short career history suggests potential which we will hope to see blossom in black and white. We were able to bring in the flair merchant due to sending centre-back Edoardo Bianchi in exchange; the captain of our own U17 side has moved to join up with former Azzurri U17 manager, Dal Canto, who was very keen on securing the services of the Roman defender. Considering that Bianchi was unlikely to feature heavily when challenging older, bigger, more experienced players for a starting berth the move made sense for all parties.

Also 18, Mehdi Leris, a French Algerian wide forward joins on loan from Chievo Verona, where he has spent the last three years. 13 goals and 3 assists from his previous campaign. His former coach at Chievo had this to say of the player –

‘He is a playmaker with good quality and good physical skills. Very flexible, can make even the inside of midfield. He is a boy of obvious talent. sometimes it is discontinuous, because of age, but he made two good seasons, establishing himself well enough to earn his first professional contract with the club. Juve have followed the boy and saw interesting things. “

The U19s begin their league campaign away to Udinese on the 10th September, though they have been involved in friendly matches of late…

Juve 3-2 Aymavilles (Kean 2, Merio)

Juve 5-2 Pinerolo (Bove 2, Kean, Rogerio and Kastanos)

Aesch U19 Torneo

Juve 3-2 Red Star Belgrade (Kean 2, Bove)

Juve 1-1 Sporting Lisbon (Kean)

Juve 2-0 Hamburg (Caligara 2)

Semis : Juve 0-1 Fluminese

3rd place play-off : Juve 3-0 Basel (Zanandrea, Goh, Mancini)

More recently we played a lively role in the Memorial Mamma Cairo torneo, which featured both Milanese and Turinese clubs.

Semi-final : Juve 4-1 Inter (Muratore, Leris, Kastanos, Morselli)

Final : AC Milan 6-3 Juve (Kean hatrick)

Kean, Toure and Mosti also played and scored in the 7-0 drubbing of Magenta alongside a selection of the seniors not involved with international commitments.

10 goals from 9 appearances for Bioty Kean is very much in line with his exceptional form of last season. If he continues to plunder goals at this rate it is going to add weight to his eagerness to move into senior football and he may well end up heading out on loan in the Winter mercato. From our perspective, I just want to see that first professional contract signed. From experience, we can never trust Raiola…

I am pleased to find the relationships with clubs from Switzerland, Belgium and the Netherlands continuing to offer senior football to youngsters unable to attract eagerness for the same domestically.

The youth set-up as a whole remains very much under discussion with the FIGC, with the chitchat mainly focused on the suggestion of B teams. Of which it seems needless for me to comment at length presently, for I shall await concrete news on that score. Other than to mention that I very much like the idea of a second string, essentially our primavera, playing in Serie B or below. For the sooner the kids are judged as men, the better. Yet it is understandable why there may be opposition to this idea, from clubs for whom Serie B is their pinnacle, and to have less chance of playing there, is clearly a point of contention and opposition.

We must bear in mind that the youth sector is extremely volatile. A player who looks amazing at 16 may seem wretched by 18, let alone 21. The least we can hope for is that the club are scouting and procuring the finest talents available. Which we are doing in spades. It is very rare indeed for a club to establish a ready-made conveyor belt from Youth to Senior at the elite level, to which we have clawed our way back and now aspire to remain. It happens once in the bluest of moons…Fergie’s fledglings. The Barca Boys. Other than which, its mainly hit and miss. I see no team operating at the very top with a team made up mainly of former youth players.

The stakes are sky high for the seniors. We are not Udinese. We cannot afford (literally) to lose games by blooding youngsters in the senior game. As much as I feel and see huge potential in many of our stock, none of them yet warrant inclusion in Allegri’s squad over what we have in terms of established professionals. There may come a time when we alter our approach; promote a player like Lirola or Romagna, instead of signing an Alves or Benatia. Until which, I will raise my glass of russian fire water to toast our efforts, which are far from a failure, always focused on success.

Of those on our books, I consider Kean the most obvious mega talent. He is a born and bred goal machine. I still retain high hopes for Bouy, Leali and even Sakor. All of whom are making progress. Slow perhaps, yet sure.

My concerns over Grosso were put to rest last term, yet his real test comes this season. For the club have moved intelligently to augment those incoming from the U17s and those remaining from last year’s primavera offering to provide the coach with an ultra strong squad. We won the Viareggio, won our league campaign, then lost in the finals, and also lost in the coppa primavera final. However, we made zero in-roads on the continental front. And it is here, where Grosso must earn his stripes. For it is the only area where we have consistently under-achieved in the modern era.

My apologies for the absence of my normal playfulness in this report, yet as I always feel the need to mention, I am far from inspired by stats and spending time seeking out reports of players from Norwegian U17 coaches! It is journalistic servitude and I already find myself peeking at how those who have sought adventure in foreign pastures are now faring, for when I see them play, I can offer much more than the stats and poorly translated reports.

Essentially, we continue to move in the best of directions. Investing wisely and hopefully. Nothing more can be done!

forza juve

Breaking News

Juve have released their official squad list for Serie A.

4 home grown in Italy – Buffon, Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci

4 home grown at Juve – Rugani, Marchisio, De Ceglie, Marrone

Neto, Benatia, Sandro, Alves, Lichsteiner, Pjanic, Evra, Khedira, Hernanes, Lemina, Asamoah, Sturaro, Cuadrado, Higuain, Mandzukic, Dybala

Squad Size of 24

De Ceglie will never play, because he is an atrocious footballer we have been trying to move on for many moons. His only value is 1 in 10 of his hooked crosses look decent. However, his feet are set in a hook shape, and so every pass is curled. The poor lad simply cannot pass in a straight line. I have never seen such a hapless player in our colours, who is as likely to start an attack for the opponents as our own side with even an attempt at a simple pass. He has the positional awareness of a fish in a tree. And as for Marrone…he is officially at loan in Belgium.

Only other surprise is that Rugani has been counted as ‘home grown at juve’ for he has not spent three seasons at the club, yet the time he has spent elsewhere when owned by Juve has been accommodated.

Whilst of sound intention, the new rules are presently appearing a farce.

And finally…

Current Internationals (from our youth sector)


Girgoris Kastanos (18) CM – Cyprus

Vykintas Slivka (21) CM – Lithuania


Domenico Berardi (22) SS/CF – Italy

Alberto Cerri (20) CF – Italy

Tasos Donis (19) SS – Greece

Valerio Rossetti (22) CF – Italy

Fillippo Romagna (19) CD/CM – Italy


Guido Vadala (19) SS – Argentina

Roman Macek (19 CM – Czech Republic

Emil Audero (19) GK – Italy

Mattia Vitale (18) – Italy


Simone Muratore (18) CM – Italy

Pietro Beruatto (17) CB – Italy

Luca Coccolo (18) CB – Italy

Allessandro Vogliacco (17) – CB – Italy

Mattia Del Favero (18) GK – Italy


Alessandro Tripaldelli (17) CB – Italy

Gianmaria Zanandrea (17) CB – Italy


Bioty Kean (16) CF – Italy

Fabrizio Caligara (16) AM – Italy

Pedro Gomes (16) CB – Portugal


Elia Petrelli (15) CF – Italy


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  • Avatar
    Jas September 5, 2016 at 6:15 pm

    Excellent article comrade!! I share your sense of enthusiasm but I am not as cautious about their potential. Kean does seem like a goal machine and I think I’ve much undervalued his skill. No we are not barca, man u etc… but I don’t for a second think that we cant make strides in our own right. We’ve never had a primavera this talented, literally in the last 20 years. There is a shift in the core model we are trying to implement at management level. Major focus is on youth as it seems, hence all the acquisitions we’ve made. I would like to point out though that Lirola, Kean, Tello have world class potential, I know this speaks volume but I think its true. Judging by all the loan deals we’ve made, there is a push for experienced youth. Again, I’ve never seen management this agressive with our youth side. It is music to my ears honestly, all the talent we crave is in our backyard. There is 7 players in Serie A!! That is almost a second B team in the top divsion, fingers crossed they all get some major minutes this year.

    • thegutterpoet
      thegutterpoet September 6, 2016 at 10:20 am

      Many thanks for your contribution as always, Jas.

      I am hard pressed to agree however, that Lirola and Tello have obvious world class potential. Yet I hope you are correct, and they have the chance to show this and to develop in the upper tier of Italy this season, and prove their value. The strategy has not changed, other than in terms of forging greater partnerships with foreign clubs and also strengthening those found at home, mainly with Empoli and Sassuolo in the top flight. That effort has been underway for a few years and gained traction when the co-ownership routine was dispensed with. We get around it e.g. Rogerio and Sensi, yet my main focus is always to move players into senior football as quickly as they seem ready. Placing them can be a tricky operation, for we want them to get games, and for a club to develop essentially our players there needs to be an incentive other than if they have superb quality already honed and valuable to their cause. Hence the moves to purchase young talent yet see them ‘bought’ by other clubs, usually with a set fee for us to purchase them officially the next summer.

      The club have been consistently buying the brightest prospects we can scout and attract. Pogba may have helped with this as he has shown that even when not proven at senior level, if you have the talent you will get the chances. However, there are not many Pogba’s around. He is a one-off in many ways.

      It is also important to retain a core of experienced players in the senior squad, for mentality is generally more sturdy in the mature than in the young. I feel the mix in our squad presently is healthy. The old guard and the young upstarts, together.

      Sensi, Spinazzola, Beltrame, Margiotta, Sakor, Cerri, Ganz and Garcia have all started in and around their respective first XIs. Yet it is early days. I will look forward to scouring the ranks closer to christmas.

      • Avatar
        Jas September 7, 2016 at 5:25 pm

        I think you are being too conservative my friend. The fact that we have 5 of our young players starting in Serie A is an accomplishment within itself. I am not saying they have world class potential as this would be irresponsible but there is a few that stand out above all. Lirola had an unbelievable year last year and is already starting for Sassuolo this year. Tello was probably Empoli’s third best player last year and Kean needs no explanation. I get it, the team has under performed in Europe and I certainly share that concern with you but there is much room for optimism. Majority of these players are loaned out now and whatever primavera we do have is constantly shifting with players coming in and out. Grosso has impressed me so far, I wouldn’t say to Allegri’s level but he has done great work. This is the do or die year for him in my opinion, its time to get those lads to perform in the Uefa youth tournament.

        • thegutterpoet
          thegutterpoet September 8, 2016 at 10:41 am

          Mate, Tello was in Sardinia last season, at Cagliari!

          Indeed, the steady chopping and changing of the primavera makes it tough for any coach to find cohesion yet Grosso has done well enough. He certainly has not failed to get close to success on all fronts other than Europe, yet that does worry me a little, albeit in terms of how we judge the talent in hand. For other coaches of youth squads are in the same situation, yet we have not managed to escape the group stage in three seasons!

          Still, we keep picking up the talent, and always have a fair amount of internationals in the mix, so we are on the right tracks, and as you say, we have an increasing number of our youth prospects placed in the top flight and in half decent leagues beyond foreign shores.

          • Avatar
            Jas September 8, 2016 at 2:00 pm

            Lol yes Cagliari!! This is what happens you have a IPA’s lol!! I am super thrilled Juventus has Pjanic as his hometown is about 30 minutes from where I was born 😀 I think he is the second Bosnian player Juventus has had after Salihamidzic. Now speaking of youth there is Amer Gojak in the Dinamo Zagreb first team, in a year I really think he will be one of the better prospects in Europe. Hoping Juve get to snatch him sometime in the short term but it seems like a dream. Anyhow, some of your political sentiment impresses me my friend!!!

  • Avatar
    Dar Black September 6, 2016 at 1:44 am

    A top read chap 😉

    Perhaps the most unique element of our little community, your upkeep of news / current happenings / form of our players in the Italian lower leagues, youth and across Europe is nothing less than an incredible endeavour on your part GP.

    We all salute you for doing this work!

    I wish Kean was not in the clutches of the The Devil ™, for we all know how that will eventually play out… Pogba part 2.

    • thegutterpoet
      thegutterpoet September 6, 2016 at 11:00 am

      I am pleased you enjoyed, comrade. And I appreciate the encouragement. Whilst there is an audience, I will continue to share my views and analysis. If I wasn’t writing of Juve I would be writing more often on global affairs which is harrowing and debilitating. Better a passion expressed where I can find solidarity more than hopelessness and futility.

      And you are spot-on with Kean. The kid is barely 16 yet Raiola has already stuck his snout in to cause bother. Demanding a loan move to a foreign club else ‘his player’ would not sign his first professional contract with the club. Thankfully the club have a solid relationship with his parents, who have to authorise the contract whilst he is 16. It appears that Juve had stated they would agree to a move to a foreign club only after the contract was signed. Whilst late returning for pre-season, Bioty did return and as you have read above, has continued his phenomenal form (24 in 25 games for the U17s last term with a few appearances for the U19).

      Whilst the relationship between Raiola and Juve remains tenuously civil, I am not fully hateful towards him, but there must come a point when we are receiving less from him than we are giving. And yes, its a crying shame that he has Bioty in his pocket. The problem there is that players seem to love him as their agent. Ibrahimovic is a huge fan, a man very hard to please who thinks only of winning. Pogba clearly was influenced hugely, but we received a great price in turn. He more often than not forges brilliant deals with his finest of talents. A sign of the times, unfortunately, and we need to keep him somewhat on side in regards to Kean who very much appears a once in a generation talent.

      The new rules have already caused me a little bother, for we have included De Ceglie in the official squad. A player who will simply not play. The problem with encouraging clubs to play their youth talents is that we certainly will keep some players – those we deem likely to be of use to the seniors – at the club or owned but on loan elsewhere, for the full three years to give us the option of including them in our senior roster just to meet the requirements. This can actually work against their development. As some of those ready to head out to gain experience in senior football elsewhere on loan will be held back…

      • Avatar
        Dar Black September 6, 2016 at 12:18 pm

        I am encouraged by the new rules in Italy though GP. When you look at the EPL and the decreasing quantity of English players playing in the league, and the inescapable abyss that is heading the national teams way in the next decade because of it you can’t help but know that the Premier League must put similar rules in place.

        Alas, money talks the loudest and therefore they won’t do anything to arrest the decline (at least not until the 11’th hour when things become so dire we don’t even qualify for tournaments).

        • thegutterpoet
          thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 2:28 am

          I can see the value and encouragement to further develop and offer opportunity to home grown talent. However, as I have just updated within the main piece above (and added in the present international roster) the rules seem presently in dire need of fine tuning. For we have included a Rugani who has played only two seasons at the club (his loan at Empoli counts), a De Ceglie whose presence in our squad has zero to do with his development and a Marrone who is officially on loan in Belgium.

          We have filled 3 of the 4 ‘home grown at club’ slots rather cunningly. The only reason it makes sense is that Allegri and the other management did not have enough confidence in Kastanos, Mattiello or Audero to warrant their involvement.

  • Avatar
    BelgianJuventino September 6, 2016 at 9:21 am

    Chiellini took a red card against Israel, meaning he is suspended for the game against Spain in october. In some more positive news, Verratti and Bonucci combined really well as alternating playmakers for the Azzurri

    • thegutterpoet
      thegutterpoet September 6, 2016 at 10:05 am

      He was wretched, as he was against France. Absent-minded and lacking his usual zeal. Perhaps there is something on the big man’s mind, for its unlike him to need a long time to shake off the rust. I mean in his drive and determination, which often translates to a steely focus on danger. We are all accustomed to the odd ‘touch of a rapist’ as my chums from back home would say…yet his head doesn’t seem Right of late.

      It disgusts and sickens me to find Israel allowed to play in UEFA competition. Most obviously because they are not part of Europe other than in their control of the governments and banks. Yet mainly, because they are the most obvious oppressors and mass killers on the planet and we all stand by and watch our own governments support their massacres and consistent destruction of Palestine. Thankfully though perhaps not yet valuably in any meaningful terms, global awareness of their consistent atrocities and shitting in the face of international law is very much on the up. Still, I suppose we couldn’t stop Hitler having a national side, so it shouldn’t surprise me to see UEFA welcome to more modern genocidal regimes.

      Yet returning to the football…I mangled this together a few years back:

      I am no fan of Celtic, yet I was impressed by their support for Palestine during their recent european fixture against Hapoel Be’er Sheva. I would hope to see the same if Juve ever played against one of their sides.

      And as for how the Israeli regime responds to demands for peace, validating the Vatican acknowledgement of Palestine as a state and advocating a two state solution from none other than the Pope, who has proven something of a breath of fresh air thus far…

      “This hasty step damages the prospects for advancing a peace agreement, and harms the international effort to convince the PA to return to direct negotiations with Israel,” the Israeli Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

      • Avatar
        BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 5:32 am

        Indeed, its odd to see Giorgio play so horrible.. I hope it doesnt continue in our colours! We really cant have that now, with still 3 more difficult games awaiting us before a period of “easy” games.

        Concerning Israël, I agree that what they do in the Palestine area is utterly violent and unworthy for any human being. It is illegal and inhumane, but the Palestines arent innocent children either! Its not a black and white dilemma, but I will leave that discussion for another time and another Place.

        I do not understand why they play European qualifiers, they are, as you say, not a part of Europe.

        I am more bothered why countries like Gibraltar, Lichtenstein, Andorra, San Marino etc… play in the qualifiers. They are no worthy opponents at all and basically a free 6 points for the others in their groups.

        And showing support for something like Celtic did is nice and agreeable, I rather have Juve steer clear from political issues like these.

        They should focus on sports and perhaps charitable causes like Unicef, Gaia etc.. Not get involved with the troubles in Israël-Palestine

        • thegutterpoet
          thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 7:27 am

          Completely understood and respected. We are all entitled to our views and I for one see sport as the perfect platform for making statements which move well beyond the pitch. When we live in a world where billions will tune in to watch men kick a ball around yet are swamped with constant propaganda validating the worst atrocities of the worst powers, it makes perfect sense to me to make use of the spectacle and its following.

          Images like these…

        • thegutterpoet
          thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 7:55 am

          Completely understood and respected. We are all entitled to our views and I for one see sport as the perfect platform for making statements which move well beyond the pitch. When we live in a world where billions will tune in to watch men kick a ball around yet are swamped with constant propaganda validating the worst atrocities of the worst powers, it makes perfect sense to me to make use of the spectacle and its following.

          Images like Smith and Carlos raising their fists to protest against racism and show solidarity with their people are incredibly strong and reach out to the world with far more power and reach than any political figure or wannabe revolutionary.

          Yes yes! There are elements with the palestinian crowd which are rather barbed, but their efforts pale into comparison with the nefarious IDF. And there are very obvious reasons why most right minded people in the world with any knowledge of the region are very much in support of a two state solution and firm in their condemnation of the savagery of the zionist regime.

          The reason why nothing is done, is that they are above our own ‘governments’. No politician in the West can openly speak against Israel and expect to continue their career. Which is instructive. It is political suicide to criticize or question them. There are also paid work bees employed by the Left and Right media. Try writing anything anti-Israel in the comments section of the Guardian for example and often it has vanished within an hour. Impeccably swift work…

          There is nothing anti-semitic about roaring against the destruction of a people and the theft of their land, against the torture and killing of children, against starving them, against removing their means of survival, against mass bombing, dragging families apart in the darkness and imprisoning hundreds, if not thousands without charge…

          Thankfully, there are a few decent souls who do speak out, and have a platform, just not enough.

          Nobody can argue with the map…

          Palestine is occupied. Israel has consistently killed, tortured, stolen their land, as the world has watched on and said nothing. They are armed by the West, protected by the West, because their regime is close top of the pile, well above our own ‘governments’. Its the only logical explanation.

          And then there is assistance they have always been giving AL-Nusra and ISIS, via the Golan Heights and beyond. Plenty of evidence to confirm that the IDF are treating wounded Al-Nusra/ISIS soldiers and arming them. Or perhaps some people believe that whilst ISIS wish to declare the world an Islamic State, they are scared of Israel? Yes yes! We will take over the world, but we love Israel! That does not make any sense whatsoever.

          Still back to the football!

          I would personally cry with joy to see Juve win the champions league and see the players lift up their shirts to reveal FREE PALESTINE emblems.

          • Avatar
            BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 9:58 am

            I wouldn’t mind having Juve support a cause, but first and above all we should focus on sports, the rest is of secondary importance in the football world. I’d just rather see them support something like, fighting cancer or something, a topic on which each and every person agrees, rather than a political/racial/religious issue, such as the Israel case.

            I wouldn’t like to be a Jew and see my team support a cause that supports fighting “my country/religion”, if you understand my meaning. Fighting cancer or feeding the hungry is just as much a cause worth the fight and it won’t scare anyone away from Juve.

            I don’t know what the Allied forces were thinking when they brought the jewish survivors back “home” after WWII anyway, that move was poised to fail. Israel and Palestine should be 2 states who can coexist peacefully, but there is probably too much bad blood for that right now, from both sides. Both Israelians and Palestines have blood on their hands and I loathe the conflict in general. Both parties have their grievances. Israel has to stop the aggression, cutting off water supplies for Palestine, stop their expansion through illegal settlements, shooting missiles at civilians etc.. Palestines on the other hand also need to stop the attacks.

            But yes, there is so much going on, I don’t think I can support either cause as morally just (though of course, this counts for any war)

            I ‘know’ a young guy, who lives in Israel. He has been recruited to defend his country and he’s terrified of it. That such things still happen is just so..depressing, terrifying. I wish I could reach out and help him and others, but there is nothing I could do for him but hope for his well-being.

            I’ve heard and seen what you mean about their involvement in Western governments and thus know you speak true about that too, which is also a harrowing thing to consider.

            Anyway, back to Juve – I suppose you can’t blame me for rather seeing something like this on their shirts after winning the Champions League: SUCK ON THIS INTER

          • thegutterpoet
            thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 10:30 am

            The support for Palestine, is support for peace, and generally the two state solution. Not fighting against Israel…and as dor your champions league dreams!

            hohoho! the Inter hatred is something I have relaxed over the years. I am more interested in our case seeking compensation, which was rejected by TAR a few days ago. On the grounds that an abortive TAR effort was made then the case was heard in other courts. The fact that the statute of limitations precluded any progress on that score was beyond them to explain. We were seeking EU440m. Which leaves us just the one option, namely the european courts. Which I suspect we will try. Why not eh? We have nothing to lose.

            I am not sure we will get anywhere, and its more important to me to have our name cleared, officially. Yet for the FIGC to allow this to happen would be conceding they fucked Juve over illegally, allowed other clubs to get off scot free for provable match fixing and be forced to compensate us. I am unsure as to from where they would find 440m. The only way it could be done would be to adjust our revenue from the TV money, pay us off in instalments, yet I return to the complete opposition to conceding guilty on the FIGC part. For that suggests the very control mechanism of Italian football is corrupt. Which they will not accept. Easier for them to have said ‘well, you are right…and it seems a mistake was made, but never mind, too late now! And why worry eh? You are back at the top. so come now, Juve, let us pull together and forget the past!’…

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            BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 11:44 am

            True enough, it is not to support war but I just think it is too touchy of a subject to pick that one, out of all good causes you can pick to support.

            I genuinely am disgusted by Inter as a whole, though it lessened too thanks to them being such an utter shit team (Hehe)

            I honestly would be happy enough to have our Scudetti reinstated. Getting so much money seems close to impossible to me.

            And of course, confirmation from the FIGC they were wrong to punish Juve so hard.

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      Dybala September 7, 2016 at 11:16 am

      All these Italian coaches are the same. He’ll use Ogbonna or some other tool. Why not start to integrate Rugani or Romagnoli? Or use Berardi or some other young striker up front? Why do we need to use Eder and Pelle all the time? Like honestly, how many fucking goals has Eder scored playing for the Aszurri the last year, better yet, how many goals has he scored for inter? It’s a bloody joke.

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        BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 11:41 am

        Yes I also suspect Ogbonna will play instead. Against Spain I can see why he would do that, for Ogbonna plays far more regularly than Rugani and perhaps Romagnoli, but not sure of the latter. But as you say, the younger generation in general HAS to become integrated.

        Pelle will soon enough disappear thanks to his move to China and as for Eder, I never liked him much for Italy. He works hard and I see why he was picked, but there are so many better options..

        Berardi has to play, simple as that. If he hasnt earned it by now, I dont know what he needs to do to deserve a chance

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    Papilaya(John)™★★★ September 6, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    Been seeing some quality Zaza clips of his training. I feel like he might do really well in epl. Shouldve put a buyback clause :p

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      elisadallomo September 6, 2016 at 7:15 pm

      You read my mind, they’re going nuts over there. Hopefully he’ll shine.. the azzurri need a goal-hungry striker… bad.

      • thegutterpoet
        thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 2:07 am

        My close chum is an Iron and he is moderately excited by the purchase, though long enough in the fang to understand Zaza was low down our pecking order. Still, he is used to playing against much tighter defences in Italy and he had a very respectable goals to minutes ratio for us last season. I think he will be fine in the premier league, just unsure how much he will play when Carroll and others return to the squad. He has the power, the drive and mentality to success in England. My main concern is his tendency to fly into tackles like a berserker. He has got away with it several times in Italy when in the premier league he would have assuredly been sent off and banned. The refs in the premier league are far less lenient, even slight tugs in the box now lead to penalties, diving is commonplace and the general standard of reffing is insanely erratic. I hope he keeps his head down and picks up some goals before red cards…and will be watching his progress every week on MOTD.

        There is the normal eagerness to see a new striker play, yet far from mass hysteria sweeping the ranks in the motherland.

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          Dar Black September 7, 2016 at 10:00 am

          Indeed, I have not seen much about him since the transfer publicity news. Once he gets a few goals we will begin to see what people think of him. Of course there have been quite a few of our ex’s move to the EPL – I have a theory that EPL club chairman view getting an ex Juve player as quite a badge of honour.

          A bit like getting a few months worth of dates with Taylor Swift before she (inevitably) dumps you and the kudos / shine wears off and reality hits home that it hasn’t changed your life. Giaccherini, Odemwingie, Ravanelli, Vialli and now Zaza and Peyrera.

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        BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 7:11 am

        Honestly, Pelle aint so bad, far better than I expected. Though since his move to China, I am not quite sure he will keep that up..

        Italy need to look to the youth right now for a goalscorer, whats available now isnt cutting it (though I hope Zaza will shine!)

        Maybe they should try using the wingers who are left out as strikers? Berardi, SES, Insigne, Bernardeschi, maybe there is a combination between them that works as a front pair?

        • thegutterpoet
          thegutterpoet September 7, 2016 at 8:03 am

          Berardi should certainly be in the senior squad and starting games. Why Ventura has not brought him in straight away is beyond me, given the player’s startling form. Gabbiadini and Immobile? Perhaps he doesn’t wish to change too much too soon but I am a firm believed in meritocracy, and Berardi is on fire of late…

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            BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 9:39 am

            Agreed, but wasnt Berardi injured before selection or was it after? Either way, he would not have been able to play due to his injury.

            I guess Ventura wants to transition slowly from Conte’s team to his own, which I think is the correct way of proceeding.

            I hope there will be transition though. Conte’s Italy performed well, but it has to evolve to a new formation and new tactics, given that the strongest attack lies with the now excluded wingers.

            Adding Berardi should be a no-brainer soon. As in, against Spain he should at least be in the selection

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          elisadallomo September 7, 2016 at 1:08 pm

          He’s not so bad, but I’m tired of saying “oh, he’s not so bad”… I want to change the discourse to “oh, he’s gooood”.

          I really want to see Belotti, Berardi, Zaza and Bernardeschi make their mark… Insigne, too. Verratti made me swoon.. he and Marchisio are exactly what we were missing from the Euros. I like Candreva.. and appreciated Antonelli’s contributions to the game yesterday. The defense, apart from Giorgio’s uncharacteristic bad streak, remains as flawless as ever.. at least when we play with the usual suspects…..

          I was honestly very disappointed in the team. I know I have to give it time but I just didn’t like what they put in the field yesterday, attitude or tactic-wise. We won 3-1 but we could’ve easily lost 3-2.

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            BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 1:13 pm

            Unfortunately “not so bad” is the best we can say about the current crop of strikers… Gabbiadini, Immobile, Eder, Pelle, Zaza, Rossi, they are all average, inconsistent or plain overrated.

            I think Ventura will gradually introduce the mentioned players though. He is at least supposed to be good with young players, so I hope for the best.

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            elisadallomo September 7, 2016 at 1:31 pm

            Ugh, tell me about it. Pellè has two goals in two games so far but we can’t still objectively say he’s “good”.. he’s just “not so bad”. And then I think Immobile’s (and Cerci’s!) choice to leave Torino was the worst decision ever… but, then again, hindsight is 20/20. Who knows what would’ve happened with that partnership in the long run.

            The “good with young players” bit is what my dad keeps telling me about Ventura and what I keep believing in, but I don’t want the players to lose themselves while the “change” is happening.

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            BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 2:48 pm

            I always think of Quagliarella when I see Pelle, I think they are very similar to each other.

            Decent strikers but no world class whatsoever. Reliable, but no game winners except for the odd occasion.

            I cant believe how Cerci ever was a menace to fear, same for Immobile. They are so mediocre throughout now.

            I hope he is as good as your dad says, we need the youngsters to play in the qualifiers, as preparation for the world cup!

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    BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 5:35 am

    And to add in my voice in the general praise: I also like these articles a lot GP. They are wholesome and detailed, well written and with a funny quip or references to actuality. Just as I like them.

    Cheers mate

    • thegutterpoet
      thegutterpoet September 8, 2016 at 10:32 am

      Thank you for the comments, James…Its appreciated and the more value others mention of the work the more work I will produce! Yet its the discussion which brings me the greatest joy. And also when I peek on and find Vajebah Sakor actually listed with strengths and weaknesses, and I ponder when I first came across the little dynamo many moons ago…and feel a buzz of excitement! I am pleased to find others taking an interest in the youth sector, and hope it continues to blossom. Cheers, Daniel.

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    BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    Yeah, where is the new group of Totti, Del Piero, Inzaghi, even Iaquinta… None of the current strikers is fit to shine their boots!

    Two or three seasons ago, yet call either of those two world class now and people will put you in a psychiatric hospital!

    Serves him right, fuck Torino! 😛 I read somewhere most people in Turin are Torino fans actually, any idea if that is true?

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      Dybala September 9, 2016 at 1:01 am

      Iaquinta? Lol. Are you serious?

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        BelgianJuventino September 9, 2016 at 5:21 am

        Well he isnt like the others in that list obviously, but remember the Iaquinta before his last season with us where it all went to shit. Iaquinta was good, he would be starting if he was playing now.

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      Dybala September 9, 2016 at 1:02 am

      Yes bro. Torino is massive in the city. Probably more Torino fans in Turin than Juventus fans.

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        BelgianJuventino September 9, 2016 at 5:22 am

        It surprised me mate! Though I understand why now

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    BelgianJuventino September 7, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    I have never seen Vieri play, I know he is also considered a great, but I was born too late I guess to see him play. Di Natale seems to lack just a bit to be put in that group, for me at least.

    Aww, missing such a thing must be painful indeed.. I wish I had a real Del Piero shirt, it would be framed and put in a place of honour!xD

    You know, thats the first time I read about this. I always assumed Juve had more fans in Turin because of the bigger success they have had historically! I mean yes, Toro also had great periode but that is at least what, 70 years ago?

    Haha, every family has that one guy I guess! Or two apparently!! Must be nice at parties, having Juve, Toro and Inter fans xD

    I wish I had such a colourful family story to tell when it comes to football! Seriously, I envy you! Neither of my parents cares a shit about football and my younger brother is the same, if he has to pick a team he says ” i dont know, Germany?” I could strangle him there and then!

    The horde of nieces I have doesnt care about football either and the few nephews and cousins I have only watch that backwater League we have in Belgium.

    Fun fact: the year you became a Juventina, I was born xD

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    BelgianJuventino September 8, 2016 at 6:17 am

    Yeah, pretty much this, its seemingly never neutral with Juve, you love it or you hate it!

    Haha, now that is a glorious burn!xD

  • thegutterpoet
    thegutterpoet September 8, 2016 at 10:35 am

    Another fine piece of work by Moggi…who somehow picked him up for 3m then sold him for close to 30m I vaguely recall. Vieri was a monster, could barely run, though was cunning and extremely powerful. A great player to watch.

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      Dar Black September 8, 2016 at 2:17 pm

      Indeed sir. A battering ram. This is one of the greatest club matches ever that he and Amoruso scored in (one of the great Juve strike partnerships…). And I forgot how many chances Milan had in the match too. A total performance by Juve, and I remember on C4 TV Football Italia show that Boban said that each and every Milan player lost their way during the match.

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        elisadallomo September 8, 2016 at 2:46 pm

        Your reply to me is gone for some reason, so I’ll reply to you here:

        I don’t know if Vieri+Amoruso were THE best but they were definitely one of the best. That whole team, though.. it was a good one. We didn’t get every Serie A game here in DR until the early 00s but you could always count on at least two games per week, and most of the times one of those was a Juve game.

        I have the worst memory ever, but I remember the one you saw live clearly. Veeery important game, and we start by losing 1-0 because of a Zidane own goal… and since I’m one of those weird people that don’t really like Zidane (something about his vibe.. his energy.. it doesn’t sit well with me) it was even worse. In fact, I just looked it up to make sure and it was indeed Amoruso who scored the penalty for the draw. It was in May ’97.

        But, yes, bad memory.. I don’t even remember the 6-1 Milan game.. I’ll check the highlights on YouTube.

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          Dar Black September 8, 2016 at 3:21 pm

          I deleted it, as actually my memory is fading Elisa (well remembered for the match details by the way…). It was 97 wasn’t it, as it was my 2nd and so far last of two matches I have travelled to Turin to see. It was just Amoruso and Boksic by then – Vieri had been sold to Athletico after CL defeat a year or so back so Wikipedia confirms, so I never did see him play for us. Probably why the Parma game was a bit dull!

          Highlight I remember was Ancelotti getting red carded for touchline descent! His Parma ‘we are minnows fighting the big boys’ routine meant I never warmed to him when he became our manager.

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            Dar Black September 8, 2016 at 3:27 pm

            No I am losing all sense of time and space here…. So scrub the above, you are quite right it was the 96-97 season for the Parma match as I’ve just checked my ticket stub I kept, and Vieri was still there then of course.

            But I really don’t remember him playing for some reason. Sure it was just Boksic and Amoruso. It doesn’t matter, if he did play he had an off day 🙂

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      elisadallomo September 8, 2016 at 3:11 pm

      I remember one of my cousin’s friends telling me he didn’t like Vieri because he was “the Gattuso of attackers, a proper beast”. But I liked that about him. He wasn’t streamlined and he didn’t have many tricks, he just scored. That was his trick, I guess. And the only one a striker needs to have.

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    Dar Black September 8, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    Vieri + Amoruso – the best Juve strike partnership of recent times? Maybe. Saw them at Delli Alpi via Parma in 1990(?) title decider. Boring 1 -1 draw. But, who can forget the 1-6 thrashing of ACM in Milan they scored in! Happy days 🙂 Always worth a viewing of that match on YouTube!

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    Dar Black September 8, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    It was definitely that game Elisa, the 96 – 97 championship decider in Turin. I just don’t remember Vieri playing for some reason. I did not remember that it was a Zidane own goal either, but that is my fading memories. Wow, nearly 20 years ago.

    It was a golden age for Juve, so I can see why after Lippi until Conte there is not so much love. Actually it’s only really since the Serie B relegation that I decided to rebuild a big interest in Juve out of a determination that the spite of the other guilty teams were not going to finish off the Old Lady…

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    Dybala September 9, 2016 at 1:00 am

    Balotelli and El Shaawry were supposed to be the future of Italian soccer when they played at Milan together. They were supposed to be Italy’s strike partnership for a decade. How’d that work out?

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      elisadallomo September 9, 2016 at 3:48 pm

      If you’re comparing that partnership with Cerci+Immobile, it’s not the same… the latter was actually (or should I say “factually”?) successful, as by the end of that year they were statistically the best attacking duo in Serie A… I think Tévez+Llorente were 2nd that year.

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    DutchJuventus September 25, 2016 at 3:16 am

    I’m a little late on this, didn’t see it when it was posted, but Bouy doesn’t seem to get any playing time at Palermo. 0 minutes today against us. Hopefully the coach will give him some time to prove himself soon…